“Can we stop behaving like children and just accept it”
You can. I don’t know why you want to just delete all that infomation but you can accept it.
For me, there’s a little thing called Godot. And if information in a year is way easier to find for that system than RPG maker for some… CRAZY reason I can’t picture why…, well why bother staying? I’ve used this for small scale dumb testing stuff but I’m not shackled to it, I’ve used it for ease of access and the built up knowledge and well ONE of those is getting purged. Why not move to a program that has better community made resources built up?
Oh and about the ‘drama’ which I never saw(not saying it didn’t happen, just wasn’t big enough for me to see); Enjoy your new drama forum cause if you thought the old one was bad, because even after everything settles down; why would you believe Guild isn’t going to descend into fractional infighting and drama anyway? More so these days with AI lingering over everything. That seems like just an EXCELLENT way to start witch hunts and infighting. Will it be as bad as the old ‘horror stories’ dunno but I don’t think it’s going to be the link arms, skip through a field with flowers and we make our little rpgs to share that people seem to think when the community is shoved together.
I’ll see rpgmaker stuff on reddit for a year at least then I’ll see what has better documentation and resources. And I don’t think it’s going to be RPG maker.
I think it theoretically could, actually, though I have my doubts about whether it could replace human creativity. However, that applies to a nebulous non-existent AI that most likely doesn’t even remotely resemble the ones being hyped right now.
I mean, why would we just accept it? There are so many other options other than accepting this mess. Options that are, may I add, a bit more popular at the moment
Because at the end of the day they don’t have to listen to us and probably won’t so might as well take the pill now and get it over with.
To which I say, there’s always other options. RPG maker isn’t the only program in town for easy of access anymore and they just burnt half the reason I used it. Say what you want, Guild isn’t going to have all that info and resources in a year. Sure we can argue over how good it was but it was still a pile of info that Guild has to try and claw back in a year. I don’t think it’s going to overcome 14 years or so of guides, resources and advice. Not unless they sic their own like AIs to scrape the site in the next couple months.
Edit This was made to reply to Mac and the site doesn’t even seem to have done that right at least from my end. WHY do we want to use this site?
I think voicing your opinion is right. But in my opinion there’s two caveats:
There’s a point where every single person making a thread feels pointless, when you can make one big thread of replies, it feels less solitary.
There’s also a point after which me as a reader start skimming over most replies voicing their disappointment, not at fault of the person writing, but because it’ll be the 100th time I’ve read the same points again.
On the other hand, if what you want is to post about you never coming to this website, just do it some other place and never come here. I just feel that coming to shout how much you hate the place is kinda pointless.
Actually wait hang on, last post was gonna be my last post but given I went and checked Godot and talking to someone, I came to a realization. Cause Godot uses a similar style of forum to this and I HATED this style since an old MMO killed it’s forum to replace it with this.
But why a friend asked me and I started rambling like I am now; I hate how impersonal it is, I hate how it seems to incentive quick snappy responses rather than a thought out detailed one or at least one that made you double check before posting,I hate the way everything is set up and indexed, I HATE the badges, other features too but you get the point…
And then I just hit onto WHY I hate Guild and WHY I hate this style of forum, and I want to share with people this as my last post. Even before the whole “Burn down the forums” I would have hated Guild if I knew it existed? Why?
This isn’t a forum. It’s Reddit in a SUIT.
And I wonder if anyone else has come to that sort of conclusion before but now that I have it’s just like, I can’t turn it off, this is just RPG Reddit to me now. Okay, I’m done.
So I created an account here, but I’m not posting a single thing I create here. “Just get over it” doesn’t cut it for me, because the terms of this site explicitly state gacha gacha games can monetize, royalty free, anything you create and post on this site. That’s the true reason for the forum switch. They want your hard earned art, plugins, all of it. They want to sell your stuff for money. In essence, everyone who posts art and the like is like an unpaid employee for them.
So no. I’m not going to just get over it. And neither should you. What I am going to do is work together with the community to archive as much stuff as possible, try to find another home for all the hard work, and treat this site like RPGMAKER Unite. That is to say, pretend it doesn’t exist.
because the terms of this site explicitly state gacha gacha games can monetize, royalty free, anything you create and post on this site.
Yes, so next time they need to switch forums, they actually possess the right to move content or archive without needing permission from every single poster.
That’s the true reason for the forum switch. They want your hard earned art, plugins, all of it. They want to sell your stuff for money. In essence, everyone who posts art and the like is like an unpaid employee for them.
Be reasonable. They are not going take people’s assets from here, and just start selling them.
These sort of over-arching terms: is just for their insurance, for different situations that can arise around the forum, and different ways the forum users may try to compromise the company (yes, that happens, it’s not just evil companies, it’s evil customers as well), that the company is able to operate here easily without needing to consult lawyers at every single step. (And increasing their bill and our bill.)
P.S. It’s Gotcha Gotcha Games. (T_T) I hate Gacha too… so I understand.
If you’re using Reddit as the “go to” source for “the official forums are toxic and rude”, I’d personally consider the sources and why those users never posted links to their topics or their usernames when they made complaints (Pro Tip: It was mostly because they had deliberately antagonized people or refused to accept the answer given and started a fight over it). Does the forums have bad actors? Sure, some. But, most complaints I’ve seen about the forums were very much “a grain of truth in it, but extremely highly exaggerated or bathed in enough lies to absolve the user making the complaint of their sins in how they acted in the situation”. Heck, someone complained over in Reddit about “being in trouble for necroposting in the assets thread”, which is an outright lie, as that part of the forums never had a rule against necroposting.
It’s incredibly useful to consider your sources, and Reddit users aren’t exactly known for being understanding or having nuanced discussions about… anything.
You need to understand something. For the users of the website, it is an emotional thing to have their “home” tore down and “replaced” with something they feel is inferior. And, let’s not sugarcoat anything… these forums are currently a far inferior layout, functionality, and user experience. They are like using Discord, which is… bad. Like… sub-optimal in every way. Anyway, the main point is that you are inherently talking to users who had made their community “a slice of home”. It is a deeply personal place to them and thus you are always going to be having an argument about how they FEEL about it. It is silly try to talk someone out of their emotions. Or tell them that they’re bad people for feeling as they do.
Everyone has the right to make demands. After all, they are potential customers. If you want their money, you place your forehead to the floor and ask for forgiveness and/or understanding. If you don’t… then you stop selling your product internationally. Or, you separate out the forums by “culture”. This is how business works. It’s how it has always worked. This is why it’s funny when AAA game devs say, “don’t like our game, don’t buy it!” and then go, “wait, you didn’t buy our game out of spite?! HOW DARE YOU!?”
Will a forum move relly impact sales? I don’t know. My personal guess is that a consolidation of all the forums and monitoring of it by AI is a “cost saving measure”. My theory is that… RPG Maker likely doesn’t make that much money, otherwise their DLC wouldn’t be so pricy, nor there be so much of it. It’s also likely why the software changed hands as well. But, without seeing their financials, I wouldn’t be able to tell you anything concrete. I can only speculate based upon current actions and recent history of the product/business.
You are correct that nobody has the right to be rude. Alas, when feelings are involved, that’s what you’re going to get. Nature of the beast. Unless you have a national culture that tells you to mute all your emotions and that you’re better off not having any, because then you’re “the nail that sticks out” so you “get hammered down”. By and large, a country like the United States of America is mostly about individualism, and in the last 20 or 30 years or so, we’ve had parents who refuse to parent and instead teach “just put your kid in front of a screen so you don’t have to parent them”. This is sort of the result of that. You can see this behavior in any fandom or forums. But, my suggestion is just to keep it civil and only address the “rude behavior”. Name calling, insults, personal attacks… Things of that nature should not be tolerated. I agree with this. But, not tolerating people who just want to lodge complaints is… well, for lack of a better term: “Stupid”. It is okay and reasonable to not want to read a 783747627645th topic about “why are you destroying our forums!?”, but it’s quite silly to create a topic about how you don’t want to read more. If you don’t want to read more, don’t read more. Simple as. You control your mouse and your keyboard. But… if these forums had a “merge topic” option… getting rid of so many threads about it would be quite quick and simple. This is something our old forums had as a feature.
On a personal note:
I’m not sure how much posting I’ll be doing in here. Two of my old haunts in the previous forums have no analogue here for me to continue engaging with the community (or, even being part of the community at all). Primarily, I discussed “Game Mechanics” and “Mechanics Design”. If a user wanted to know if it was better to use On Screen Encounters versus Random Encounters, I would engage in those discussions and the positives/drawbacks of each system. As well as all the most common pitfalls of RPG Maker Users implementing those systems. Secondarily, I would discuss some of the “set up and planning” of people’s games. If someone had a question about “how do I market my game?” or “how do you write good characters?” or similar, I would engage with that.
Generally speaking, I hold no real interest in questions about how to utilize the program itself, since you can do a quick google search for any of those answers and there’s no real need to sign up to forums for it (though some people do anyway, for some silly reason). If someone were to ask me “how do I do X” in the engine, my first stop is going to be google to pull the answer and then rephrase it to the age and technical level of the user so that they can understand it quickly.
Anyway, I am undecided on these forums so far. I am old enough to know that if you live long enough, you see everything you ever loved turn to burning refuse. I made peace with that at 32. Everything I’ve ever loved has turned into the moldy purple fungus growing at the bottom of the dumpster. It simply is what it is at this point.
I am waiting to see if this alternative turns into something even close to what it is being lost… or if it will remain the same redundant and useless vestigial limb that I am looking at today.
I will be clear, here. I do not utilize the internet for “community”. I use the internet for gaming and to look up things I have an interest in. I “stuck around” the old forums, because I enjoyed the discourse and the community that was there. I don’t put my roots down anywhere online. But, I was happy to call that place “home” for more than 10 years. The one constant in my browsing history and daily routine. I am sad to see it go. Without a proper replacement for what I am losing, I do not know if I will stick around. If I am not going to stick around, I probably won’t buy any new products, either. Not out of spite. I won’t buy them, because there will be nothing to keep me thinking about the programs. Nothing to keep me working on any projects I currently have within the programs.
I am taking a “wait and see” approach with the new forums. I’m giving them a proper chance. But so far, it just looks like “support forums for the program”, which I view as fairly useless since a google search can get you the information you’re looking for without a “sign up and make a post” process.
And why exactly does one need the right to “commercially exploit” content to do any of those things? Read the terms and ask yourself what “commercially exploit” means in this scenario. It doesn’t have to be direct sales. If I had to guess, it’s probably selling to AI companies. But the wording also doesn’t exclude direct sales.
And you just want to take something that’s expressly written on this contract and have people assume it’s probably ok? That’s … awfully naive imo.
And even if it’s not? It’s a real bad look and not something I want to get involved with. If it wasn’t for the community, who by all reasons should have a right to not have their own work monetized without royalties, RPGmaker wouldn’t be where it is.
I’m not going to “rejoin” a community where I don’t even have the confidence that my own hard work and creatively isn’t going to be exploited. This is literally why I paid money for a product instead of just using something like unity. Maybe they won’t monetize my stuff. Maybe it is “just in case” but given these are legal terms of use, I’d be crazy to do that. You do you, but I think anybody posting stuff here deserves to know. I imagine a good deal of people are coming over and sailing right over those terms. I had to dig a little to find them myself.
(In case the forum doesn’t show it, this post is a reply to @MerlinCross )
Funny enough, while the site doesn’t seem to show your post as a reply to mine, I did get a notification that you replied to me xD
I think we might have understood the premise of this post differently - namely what getting over “it” means.
I interpreted it as “we should just use this forum, nothing can be done about it”. Which of course, we’re very much doing something about it, and will likely make ourselves a new community-ran forum that can’t be shut down by GGG.
What was probably the intended interpretation was “accept that the old forums are being shut down and it can’t be changed”. Which, yeah, is fair enough. I think we’ve already accepted that GGG never listens to us years ago.
I think if your reply is directly after the post you’re replying to (like mine), the post will not show it is a reply. Even if I clicked on the reply button in your post.
A friend on discord theorized that there’s a layer of bad translation in those terms. Because otherwise those terms are standard nowadays. They just used words that are usually avoided, like “exploit”. Usually they’d use something like “use in a commercial way :)” or something dumb that sounds less aggressive, more ambiguous but means kind of the same.
That’s why I said it sounds like there may be a translation error in the terms. Has anyone checked if the Japanese language version of the terms sounds as aggressive?
@Mac15001900 This is 100% what I mean. I’m not very good with words, but in my real-life profession, I deal with life-and-death situations every day. I don’t invalidate people’s opinions, and I know how emotional these topics can get. We all have to be civil about it — that doesn’t mean we can’t go down kicking and screaming if we need to.
I’ve seen corporations taken down by the utmost calm and very intellectual people. Let’s be honest, people generalize a lot. If one group acts out of order, they label the rest of the group the same way. I’m a very positive individual, and this is coming from someone whose job entails de-escalation.
I apologize if it came across as “sit down and just take it” — that’s not what I’m trying to say at all. This has all been a mess, I agree with that. What we do with that mess is what matters. We have to shape it, since we all consume the same thing, if that makes sense.
